Ben Folds Five Digest
Issue #32 - February 8, 1996
Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #32
Topics for Today:
Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
RE: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
Public Rebuttal
BFF's next single...
Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
Re:introductions
Burning Ben's Bridges
Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
NO SUBJECT
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 22:12:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Nathan <mdnathan@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
I think the next track being worked at radio is Julianne (I did read that
in an industry "tip sheet.")
Get that Barenaked Ladies Enhanced CD single of Shoebox...you will love it!
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Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 01:21:00 PST
From: Matt Wardlaw <matt@wmms.com>
Subject: RE: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
Question:
What label is the Mr. Wrong soundtrack on?
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 01:15:01 -0600
From: jen harris <jharris@minn.net>
Subject: Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
Thanks for the Alice Childress information. I'd been wondering if the name
was some obscure reference to Alex Chilton, but maybe that's just because
here in Minneapolis, everything is filtered through a Replacements frame of
reference.
In response to one of the posts in the last issue - on which single from the
cd should be released next - I have to say that UNCLE WALTER would be a good
candidate. I don't find it too silly, in fact, finding anything "too silly"
seems to contradict one of the things that makes BFF such a refreshing
group... At the show on Jan. 31 here in Minneapolis, silliness was abundant.
Ben responded to some good-natured heckling by breaking into a Journey/REO
Speedwagon/TV theme song shtick that was silliness defined.
The only song that I regularly cut out of my playlist from the cd is
BOXING...but only because it sort of interrupts the mood of the album.
I'm wondering if BFF has as enthusiastic a following in the rest of the
country as they do here in Mpls. They've played sold-out shows twice in the
past four months. I figured that they'er popularity here had something to
do with the fact that WREV/KREV has been going nuts with UNDERGROUND since
about June. Has anyone noticed any particular regional BFF fandom hot
spots? Just curious.
Jen Harris
jharris@minn.net
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 02:19:11 -0500
From: Opus <opusmo@tiac.net>
Subject: Public Rebuttal
Hi, there. It seems my recent views on the video for "Underground" did not
go unoticed. In fact, this disjointed letter from what seems like the
director was sent both to me and the mailing list, and I figure I should
have some sort of reply. Although, for the sake of the other people on this
list, if the original author would like to write me again, he can do so
directly at Opusmo@tiac.net to spare the rest of the mailing list users an
ongoing debate. Feedback to the oringial post, or my reply, by other fans
if greatly appreciated.
>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:34:35 +0000
>From: Reeves Budd <reeves@dirty.com>
>Subject: A response re: editing
>
> Dear "Opus",
> since you have grown up watching television I find your aesthetic
> ability to be slightly judgemental and off especially when attempting to
> judge underground. Having edited feature films, commercials (some i'm sure
> you must have seen many times since your life is occupied by TV) and yes
> music videos MANY (madder rose, buster pointdexter, junior mafia etc.) From
> your perspective you see only the manipulated final product. In the case
> of underground you see a hacked up and pasted together version created by
> the inflated ego of the performer. While you remain only a consumer in
> this game played by overrated artist who can do little more then play music
> not write video scripts like this band "leader" attempted to do. The
> director wanted a live video the band alone forced the western theme to be
> produced. The sound effects are mixed to low and you seem to miss the
> point. Good luck with your life and remember you are alone / you are alone/
> keep your nose high /and keep missing the point/ life is great here /hope
> you die a painful death
> ...................................................like working with hot
> new talent
>
> David Hale
> David@caroline.com
> fax: 212-727-1402
>
Imagine my suprise seeing this letter in my mailbox. Imagine my
confusion trying to figure out who it was by and what it meant. I would
like to address the author (I cannot tell if it is Reeves Budd or David
Hale, since their names both appear on the letter, although I seem to
recall Reeves Budd being listed as the director of Underground) about some
of the things he says.
Yes, I might have grown up watching television, and my view of
media has been skewed by that. But I am also a great fan of the arts, and
have studied film quite a bit. I am even written and am starting to produce
a film of my own. So my judgement, while still being my own opinion, is not
an uneducated one. If I had any bias, it would be to like this video,
becuase I like the band and the song so much.
I also understand and appreciate your credits. I'm sure I have seen
and perhaps even enjoyed your other works. I didn't mean to imply in any
way that you are not competant in what you do. I was just remarking about
this one particular video, and my displeasure with it.
I can also not attempt to understand the creative process behind
the filming of this video. I do not know how much Ben Folds had to do with
the decisions, and what he might have done to your ideas. This is, perhaps,
where other members of the mailing list might help: if any of you know
anything about the band's vision and approval of this video, please post
it. Having acted and directed myself, I understand about egos can clash at
times, and some people just do not work well together. Once again, however,
this was not what my original post was about.
I beleive that the overall video was not a good one. The western
theme might have worked if there was a greated sense of unity, but the
quick editing and crowded action didn't allow that. We were shown a lot of
people, often without a chance to figure out who they were, doing a lot of
things. The sound effects added to the chaos. There was just too much going
on and never the chance to understand why. If I have missed the point, as
you suggest, perhaps the "point" should have been better presented in the
first place. This is what I said in my original post and I stand by it: it
has nothing to do with how the video was made and is not a judgement on
your previous works. I just did not like the end result.
After working out the disjointed and incomplete sentences in the
main body of your letter, however, I am still puzzling over the closer. I'm
assuming these are song lyrics of some sort, although they are not of
anything I know of, certainly not of any released Ben Folds Five song. I
guess you were trying to say that working with BF5 was, for you, like a
painful death, but again, the "point" was lost on me. As one whose job it
is to communicate to an audience, you might want to work on your
presentation a little.
Thank you all on the list for putting up with my little public
rebuttal. I used only stale prose to respond, as the voice of reason rarely
uses words like "boing", "galoshes" and "Silly Putty", like I often do. You
may have noticed I didn't even touch the subject of the negative portrait
he painted of the Ben Folds Five; you may respond to that yourselves.
love,
opus
==============================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 01:03:20 -0800
From: Mike Martis <mikem9@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: BFF's next single...
I was about to throw my backing vote for Best Imitation of Myself as
the next single when I stopped to think abou it (an admittedly
dangerous habit of mine). Nothing against Best Imitation - like just
about every other song on this album, it's friggin' incredible. But if
we're talking single, what about Philosophy? IMHO, it's probably the
most commercial song on the record, it's got a great hook, lyrics that
scream "video," a catchy melody and killer harmonies. It's only
drawback as a single might be that, in a radio environment, it might be
hard to peg.
That little hurdle isn't unique to Philosophy - this whole album is
difficult to classify, which is a big part of its greatness. At the
same time, it could keep them in radio never-never land, that vast
wasteland created by the let's-not-take-a-chance mentality of corporate
broadcasting, and prevent them from achieving the big-time success they
deserve (though they wouldn't be the first great band to suffer that
fate).
Which is why I agreed with Underground as the first single - it's edgy
enough to be reeled in by alternative stations (the current rage in
radio), while at the same time commercial enough to squeeze onto a few
of the Eric Clapton/REM/Sting/Melisssa Etheridge/Peter Gabriel-spewing
mainstream yuppie rock formats known as Adult Album Alternative, or
AAA.
But on the whole, our boys are perhaps a little too soft to reach
mainstream alternative status, and either too quirky, too poppy or not
mature enough sounding for AAA formats. Granted, they can be a
household (dormhold?) name on every college station in the land, but
that won't get them rich, either.
So we have a classic 'tweener on our hands, which means one of a few
things: a) They'll settle into a moderate, barely break-even level of
commercial success and keep cranking out one incredible tune after
another, keeping their limited but hugely loyal group of fans
deliriously happy (a la, say, XTC), b) After a few less-than-stellar
selling albums, they'll be jettisoned by Sony and left on the pop scrap
heap, or c) Their immense talent and ever-increasing legion of fans
will force mainstream radio to bow down, sing their praise and
dutifully play their records (after all the radio consultants tell them
it's safe to do so, of course). They'll be big stars, move to LA, and
change the face of pop music forever. Or something like that, anyway.
I'll take A or C, whichever the band prefers, and hope like hell they
don't slip through the cracks of the music biz and leave us
prematurely.
Having said all that, I'd roll the dice with Philosophy as the next
single, formats be damned, with a consolation vote going to Best
Imitation. To my ears, Alice Childress is the real classic on the
record, but it's a risky single pick until they get a little commercial
success ($$) under their belts.
Just one guy's opinion...
--Mike
"An arranged marriage is not so good."
-- Ben Folds Five
"Mawage is what bwings us twogeva twoday."
-- The Princess Bride
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 05:15:50 +0000
From: Reeves Budd <david@caroline.com>
Subject: Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
To Frank,
Well someone wanted to use our access to the internet as a way to vent
there frustration with working on the video. (our editing time) although
what he said is true as far as honoring the bands requests, and also as
well as being not only the caroline web designor I did direct the video. I
was not the person that posted the message. I get paid to carry out the
bands desires not have an opinion. Please advise your readers if you could
that my name ended up at the bottom of your list because the message was
sent from our office. I respect the persons opinion as well as your
readers but not the misuse of our system
thank you the real david hale
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:12:05 -0600
From: Sufi <sroeller@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re:introductions
For people wanting to know who are the BF5 fans, I thought I would
introduce myself. My name is Sue Roeller and I am a senior at UW-Madison.
I saw Ben and the gang a couple of weeks ago here in Madison and they
were - as all of you who have seen him can attest to - AWESOME. So I
decided to join the mailing list. Anyway, I am majoring in Social Work and
Womens Studies.
My favorite songs have to be Philosophy and Song for the Dumped.
By the way...for any of you looking for other great music, if you like BF5,
check out a group named Jellyfish if you haven't already!
Later
-Sue
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:29:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Mondlock <mmondloc@indiana.edu>
Subject: Burning Ben's Bridges
Jeepers,
From the sounds of it:
>"While you remain only a consumer in
this game played by overrated artist who can do little more then play music
not write video scripts like this band "leader" attempted to do."
It sounds like the beloved Caroline record company is a little bitter
that someone signed a contract with Sony. Personally, I thought the
video was alright but, as a public relations move, Caroline records isn't
playing it too smart. These guys could get big.
Anyway, Opus, even though I don't agree on your opinion of the video, I'm
on your side in the fight.
So what if Ben had control of the video? Who should; somebody who had
nothing to do with the songwriting process and has no clue of the meaning
of the song? (like a hired director). Well, off to class...
Matt
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:59:34 -0500
From: Seaforest@aol.com
lyrics for "Song For The Dumped" a couple of issues back.
Those were the lyrics as they stood on the demo, but I'm not sure as to how
the song sounds on the official, released version. I was going to ask what
the lyrics were on the soundtrack, but JRP posted them.. thanks!
Interestingly enough, on a BF5 live tape that I have, he doesn't say "you
f^*&ing whore" (ever so melodically) like he does on the demo. Instead he
says "and don't forget".
If anyone has any live analog recordings of more BF5 stuff, please e-mail
me. I've got lots to trade. Thanks!!
-Chris
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:09:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Josiah Haas <99haajos@james.hawken.edu>
Subject: Re: Ben Folds Five Digest, Issue #31
I bought their album the other day and it is amazing. I got the last
copy at all the store for a while. They could not keep up with the
demands. Hey Wild Bill, I feel bad for you
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Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 15:32:11
From: bminnick@locrscs.CMIC.STATE.PA.US
Subject: NO SUBJECT
Hello. My name is Bill Minnick and I have been a Ben Folds Five junkie for
about 4 or 5 months, ever since I first heard them on WXPN in Philadelphia. I
just picked up the "Mr. Wrong" soundtrack and am now jamming to "Song For The
Dumped," which is yet another small gem from my favorite small band! I saw
them at the Kybher Pass in Philadelphia last December and was mightily
impressed with their live presentation. I am now trying to obtain a copy of
the "Jackson Cannery" 45 to complete my collection. I won't bore you with
any more fan minutiae but I did want to inform you of a show that is to take
place next month (March 21) at the Theatre of Living Arts in Philadelphia.
It's a special show put on by WXPN and only available to folks who pledged
$100 or more during their recent fund drive. I unfortunately did not
understand that it was an exclusive show (otherwise I'd have forked over the
$100 immediately), so unless I'm able to luck into some tickets, it doesn't
look like I'll be going to that show (BUMMER!). Anyway, I don't know if you
want to add that show to your page or not. Please add me to your mailing
list or please inform me of how I may obtain information on BFF in the future.
Thanks much! e-mail address: bminnick@palegis.cmic.state.pa.us
==============================================================================
[Welcome to the list, Bill. There's information on ordering the
Jackson Cannery 7" on the web pages under Discography.
As mentioned in issue 31, this will be the last one for about a week.
I'll be otherwise occupied and unable to edit the digest. Next issue
should come out next Wednesday, Feb. 14. -fjm]
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