THE MAGICAL ARMCHAIR

The Ben Folds Five Digest

Issue #422 - August 1, 1997



Magical Armchair Digest     Friday, August 1 1997     Volume 01 : Number 422



                           THE MAGICAL ARMCHAIR
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TOPICS IN THIS DIGEST:

    Brick
    okay, enough back issues, thank you, goodnight 
    Hello!  My name is... 
    Where to find Live COncerts 
    Re: bootlegging... 
    mediocre dwarf
    Re: tour, digest, Brick
    liveconcerts.com
    Re: Taping
    two quickies
    bands LOSING money from bootlegs
    i've got mine!
    Todd Rundgren
    re:  "Bootlegs--the Converse FOR Argument"
    To Marcus Kamp
    brad 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:10:42 -0400
From: "Lance E. Johnson" <lajohns4@vt.edu>
Subject: Brick

How about that?  Two contributions already.  I loved Anne's comments on
"Brick".  You decide, plain and simple; however, I think Frank cleared it
up with what Ben said about it.  Fun to think about at any rate.  Still
haven't seen the Dwarf video, but hope to catch it soon.  By the way,
whoever asked about the "Satan Is My Master" cut on "Underground", I saw it
the other day in Newport News, VA for $7.00.  Not bad, but I was strapped
for cash at the time.

Also by the way, I went to school with an Anne Lyons in Virginia.  Same one
by chance?  George your brother?  

Keep on listening and spreading the good word.  I also feel strapped to put
a closing quote at the end of this message, but here goes:

"My yellow flame, she dances."  Dave Matthews.
Interpret that.

Lance

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:45:07 -0500 (EST)
From: ghicks@fas.harvard.edu (>>> george w. hicks <<<)
Subject: okay, enough back issues, thank you, goodnight 

If anyone ever catches themselves wondering whether this mailing list really
has a lot of people on it, I can unequivocally reply "Yes, it does," while
forwarding you the roughly 7,000 back issues of digests 408 through 415 that
everyone has sent me as per my request on Tuesday.  I sincerely thank you
all very much for being so friendly, and now, for the love of pete, please
stop!!!  On the other hand, I guess it was a good way to ensure I'd get the
issues I needed...

george

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 10:27:57 UT
From: "Melissa :) " <tcbcdisc@msn.com>
Subject: Hello!  My name is... 

Hey, all you armchair-ites! :)  

So, I've been lurking for the past couple of weeks, reading intelligent posts 
[you guys have so much insight -- I love it! :)] and decided to make my post 
since I'm in an enthusiastic mood right now... :)

01... Let me introduce myself ... my name's Melissa, I live out in one of the 
western states [in CA], and I'm close to being a BFF-holic [close, but not yet 
- -- I've got too many things to do at the moment :)]!!  

02... I'm going to the HORDE show in Chicago [since I'm gonna be in town this 
weekend! hehe!], and I'm really excited to see BFF live [finally!  plus, Beck 
and MMW!]!!  So, those of you who know the World Theater, anything I should 
know about [tight security, etc.. :)]?

03... Just curious... is there an IRC channel for us armchairs?  

04... Trying to start a new thread [hope it'll work :)!]... some of you who 
are Phish-phollowers [I kinda am, but not *drastically*] know that Ben and 
Jerry's made an ice cream flavor after them [Phish Food, which I highly 
recommend! :)].  Anyhoo, if Ben and Jerry's were gonna make a flavor for the 
beloved BFF, what would it be called? [I'm sure you nancies (DMB mailing list) 
out there know how I got this idea :)]!

05... Flood my mailbox :)

Thanks for listening :)

~Melissa~
and if nothing can be done, we'll make the best of what's around ~djm~
i'm your nightmare little man... ~bf~

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:31:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: NeshX@aol.com
Subject: Where to find Live COncerts 

In a message dated 97-07-30 20:34:46 EDT, you write:

> Where is that concert? I've looked and I'ce looked and I just can't
>  locate anything by Ben Folds Five like people said there were!
>  

Under liveconcerts.com, click on KFWC or something underneath ARCHIVES to the
left... under there, let the page load, and you should see about 3 shows with
BFF... they are all excellent, and the latest one has then with the
orchestra. 

Hope this helps!
- --Nesh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 23:13:40 EDT
From: shultz@bme1.image.uky.edu (Jason Shultz)
Subject: Re: bootlegging... 

>Who's the criminal?  Why does BOOTING HURT the band?  

Burning CD's for sale hurts the FANS!  What about bands that
decided to pull the plug on soundboard tapings, like DMB and
the Grateful Dead?

Some fans are the criminals, while the rest are the VICTIMS.

Shultz

***************************************************
*  Jason Shultz                                   *
*  Orthopaedic Biomechanics Laboratory            *
*  Wenner-Gren Center for Biomedical Engineering  *
*  University of Kentucky                         *
*  shultz@bme1.image.uky.edu                      * 
***************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:22:31 -0400
From: schander@juno.com (joe s schanderson) 
Subject: mediocre dwarf

Did people really like the angry dwarf video that much? When it first
started and a couple people looked through the hole to see the band I
thought, "that's pretty cool." But that's all it ever did. Over and over.
 I'm interested in what people liked as well as didn't like. I did love
the karate chopping and butt shot by Ben. On the other hand, as I'm sure
has been discussed at length, the Battle of Who Could Care Less video was
is brilliant. Any dissenters? 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Maynard <maynard@mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Re: tour, digest, Brick

Evan Chakroff <chakroff@ee.net> writes:

>I've looked everywhere I could think of and I haven't been able to find
>tour dates for after the Australia ones. Are they coming back here for a
>tour (of their own) immediately following that?

   Yes, a cross-country tour of the US for mid-October to early December
is in the planning stages but the dates have not been firmed up yet. The
usual pattern is people will post seeing ads in local media for individual
shows, then the band will release the itinerary and I'll post it here and
on the web page. 

schander@juno.com (joe s schanderson) writes:

>I for one, as a member of another band list which is sent out in
>individual posts, LOVE the fact that we receive the armchair in digest
>form. It makes it so much less tedius when I can just scroll down through
>everything instead of opening 30 emails. 

   One big reason as well is to save on Internet resources (bandwidth and 
server time). Bouncing each message to 1000+ subscribers, complete with 
full headers, during prime time consumes a lot of resources. With a 
digest, one or two messages (albeit big) go out when everyone is sleeping 
(at least at the server site) and folks in North America still get it in 
prime time.

>re: brick. No matter what it is really about, I think people(including
>myself at one time) are struggling to find something else for it to be
>about because they don't want it to be about abortion. 

   An angle I hadn't thought of. It is such a controversial topic, and 
people may be forced to make up other scenarios (like the sick dog 
theory) but one thing is for sure: it makes you confront the issue, even 
if you choose to skirt it by rationalizing something else. (And I swore
I'd never get involved in this thread.)

 -fjm
        Jane, remember second grade? Said you couldn't stand my face.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:21:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Adam 'DeLicious' DeLisse" <adeliss@comp.uark.edu>
Subject: liveconcerts.com

to find the boys at liveconcerts.com, click on the link to the radio
station call letters...the recording is a session they did at an LA radio
station the day of the HORDE show there

Adam DeLisse
					.
				       / \
				      / V \
				     /     \
				    / V V V \
				   /   V V   \
				  / V   V   V \
				 /             \ 
				/ V V V V V V V \
			       /   V V V V V V   \
			      / V   V V V V V   V \
			     /       V V V V       \
			    / V V V   V V V   V V V \
			   /   V V     V V     V V   \
			  / V   V   V   V   V   V   V \
			 /____________________________ \ 

   ...............and people say there is no beauty in math..............

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:26:38 -0400
From: shaun gilmour <sgilmour@pgh.net>
Subject: Re: Taping

Adamweezer@aol.com wrote:
> Subject: Taping
> 
> I have loads of tapes and have yet to become involved in a tape tree.
> Getting shows is not always as easy as joining the nearest tape tree,
> especially when dealing with smaller acts (as my tastes seems to dictate).

The reason that you probably haven't run across any trees by those bands
is that they are
either A): Not taper friendly or B): there is such a small group of
people who tape that it just isn't worth it to put one together.

> >Plus if I went to a BFF show an started passing out tapes of them I know that I'd
> >be hauled off by security in a second if they caught me. They have a
> >no-see, no-enforce policy.
> 
> Where the hell do you get this idea from?
> Shows are one of the best places to conduct trades, it saves on postage.
> 

No kidding? What I was responding to was in reference to someone's idea
that we just make 
analogs and take them to shows and randomly hand them out to people. Not
pre-arranging trades with people and then meeting them at shows. I've
done that lots of times.


> >Well, I don't hear anyone bitching when they hear my tapes! I'm no
> >quality snob, but if I'm going to spend the money on tape and postage, I
> >damn well better get something back that sounds superbe. Not like
> >something from some dork who borrowed his daddy's micro-cassette
> >recorder and stuck it down his pants, got his pubies all knarled up in
> >the condenser mic, then stands with it chest high and commenses
> >recording while singing out of tune at the top of his lungs!
> 
> everyone starts out somewhere. I'll bet the first show you taped sounded just
> as bad as everyone else's. Getting vulgar with unneccesary details isn't
> going to help your case any.

HMMMM....I don't recall the first show I taped sucking. And I certainly
didn't make it with a hand held recorder. I did lots of research into
what kinds of equipment to get and talked with lots of tapers at shows
about what they would recommend a beginner should purchase. When I made
my final decision and bought equipment I was prepared. And, once again,
I only tape "taper" friendly bands. So those there are always people
around who are up on new equipment and things. It's not hard to learn
these things people. Tapers don't bite! Just ask us and we're willing to
help. 

I think the thing that most of you don't understand is that many of you
have tapes by bands that don't have a large crossover audience into
bands that are taper friendly. That's why people have been bitching and
moaning about equipment and quality standards. My taping experiences
come from the early days of HORDE bands, who's taper section mainly came
from people who were into the DEAD, where the whole "official" taping
came from. Those people brought with them the knowledge about equipment
and techniques and passed it along to a new generation. I'm not trying
to belittle people who sneak equipment into shows, but rather pass along
the fact that there are much better ways of recording shows than the
micro-corders.

I'm sure that many of you just don't understand the whole taping thing
and are just as satisfied with getting a tape of a band you love, but
not knowing that the quality can be so much better. It's like sex. You
can think you are having incredible sex with someone, until that person
comes along that just blows your mind. And suddenly you are at a whole
new level. Listen to a micro-corder recording of a show and then listen
to one that is recorded with a DAT and a pair of Coresounds and you'll
notice the difference.

Many of you have said in the past.."What's the use of blowing all that
money when I can get just as good a recording using cheap equipment?"
That's like buying a used car. Sure you can get a car that you like used
and it runs okay, but for a little bit more money you can get the same
model new. 

>> Some of the greatest bands (IMHO) that I've come across have never had trees.
>> I'd hate to see your music collection.

Well, then take a look at my collection. I hope you hate everything on
it!

- -- 
Later,
Shaun
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaun Gilmour                Visit my tapelist on the web!!!
sgilmour@pgh.net       http://www3.pgh.net/~sgilmour/tapes.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:36:31 -0700
From: Kim <kim@foothill.net>
Subject: two quickies

About the digest thing: I love it. I signed up for the James list, and it wasn't in 
digest form, and I cancelled it. It was thrilling to see the cute lil' exclamation point 
pop up every 3 mins. when I got a mail, but then I discovered it wasn't from Ben asking 
me to marry him *sob, sob*, yet just another James mail. Anyhow....

Don't ya just adore getting snail mail? :) And guess what popped into my po box the 
other day! A **FREE** CD Rom called Launch. It has interactive games (never played 'em) 
interviews (pretty spiffy) but most importantly....*drum roll* You guessed it, BFF! It 
contains 3 of their songs from WEAEA, and a lil' 10 second music video to go along with 
each song. Go to www.launchonline.com 

Better hurry though, 'cause I'm sure it ends soon. (Oh, and I know there's lotsa 
Morphine lovers out here *Hi Matt! :)* and it has them on it too).

enjoy,
Kim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:03:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Christopher Kane <kanew1@ecl.wustl.edu>
Subject: bands LOSING money from bootlegs

okay, so i've seen a bunch of posts stating that bands end up LOSING money
when people buy bootlegs...  is this really the case, or would it be more
appropriate to say that they simply DON'T MAKE any money from bootleg
sales?

of course, i don't know a whole lot about the whole bootleg thing, but my
take on it is this: a percentage of an album's sale goes to the band- they
make money when a regular album is bought.  when a bootleg is bought, they
DON'T get a percentage, and therefore MAKE NOTHING- they also lose nothing
from this, as far as i can see...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:17:13 PDT 
From: "Karen Tran" <pink_fly@hotmail.com>
Subject: i've got mine!

It is official that I am going to see ben folds five at sydney uni on 
the 25th of september!!!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:32:07 +0100
From: Richard Lee <roo@orb.org.uk>
Subject: Todd Rundgren

Could someone tell me a bit about Todd Rundgren, a lot of people say that he's similar to BFF, I can't find any of his albums though, who is he? So far the only thing I've heard that comes to BFF is Steely Dan and Joe Jackson.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:59:04 -0700
From: "Kamp, Marcus S" <Marcus.Kamp@PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: re:  "Bootlegs--the Converse FOR Argument"

I wasn't going to get into this, but I will.  Bootlegs CAN seriously 
jeopardize the amount of money a band can make, which is usually a 
pittance anyway.  The only way bands make money is by royalties.  Most 
musicians, eager to get "the big deal", sacrifice publishing royalties 
+ therefore only get performance royalties.  Bands also get about 15 
cents-per-CD, out of which they must pay back the record label for the 
advance w/which they made that CD.  In other words, the label lends 
the band, say, $50,000, which the band then has to pay back out the 
measly cut they get.  The only way for a band like BFF to survive is 
to retain publishing royalties, in addition to the piss-poor 
performance royalties. THEREFORE (+ my point), unofficial tapes give 
the bands ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  They also increase the risk that their 
songs can be used in illegal + cheap ways (ie. Reebok commercials). 
 If they ONLY survive off of paltry percentages from legitimate CD 
sales, it logically follows that sales/trades of illegitimate 
recordings DO hurt the band.  That's not to say anything about 
recording for personal + private use-that's allowed under copyright 
laws, like taping a movie off of TV-but sales + trades can and do hurt 
the musicians we love.   Just be careful who you're trading with-I 
think armchairians are a pretty safe bet, because none of us want to 
see BFF starve in spite of, or because of, a hugely loyal fan base. 
 Remember, the music business is just that-a business-and one just 
barely above legalized slavery.  The only bands that make money are 
the mega-huge ones, like REM, U2, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Hanson 
(oops), Spice Girls (somebody stop me!)...
Enough rambling.  BTW, I'm also 27 + NOT a teenager.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:34:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Patton <shirak@umich.edu>
Subject: To Marcus Kamp

	Hey! watch it with the remarks about caucasians! Some of my best
friends are afflicted with that disorder. Don't ridicule them because of
their lack of rythym, they're nice people. Well, if you forget the fact
that from several historical slants, they're the cause for most of the
world's problems, they're harmless! Laters.

ERIC

P.S. THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_______________________________________________________________________________
	"If I want anymore of your lip, boy, I'll rattle my zipper."
							Blacjacmac
_______________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:05:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: BReWCHeeSe@aol.com
Subject: brad 

I can't believe someone else mentioned Brad!  An incredible band!  Stone
Gossard is allowed to do quality music without an Ed Vedder to veto it
because it doesn't sound like Neil Young!

Sorry for the non BFF, but BRAD!  Amazing.

BReWCHeeSe

------------------------------

End of Magical Armchair Digest V1 #422
**************************************


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