THE MAGICAL ARMCHAIR
The Ben Folds Five Digest
Issue #1393 - February 7, 1999
Magical Armchair Digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1393
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TOPICS IN THIS DIGEST:
Question:
RE: General Questions
I'll tell ya somethin' about junk, son...
nonbentent
bootlegs
bootlegs
Re: Magical Armchair Digest V1 #1392
copyright laws
bootlegs
BF5 videos on TV
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:18:38 EST
From: SHAP99@aol.com
Subject: Question:
Hey bf5ers~!
I was just scanning some message boards on AOL and someone mentioned a chat
with Ben Folds at SPIN online I think. Is this true? I havent seen anything
about it anywhere else.... weird, well if anyone knows somehting about this,
get back to me!
luv ya!
- ---> Jez
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/4791/Jeshy4u.index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:54:03 +1100
From: "Daniel Hirning" <dhirning@iname.com>
Subject: RE: General Questions
>Does Anyone Else think that it would be awesome for the guys to
start a fan club. Something like Pearl Jam's Ten Club.
What happened to the fan club that was *going* to get started up?
There was a heap of talk about it there for a while, and it just
stopped...
Or did it get started up, and I just missed it (which wouldn't
surprise me...)
Also, regarding The Beginning CD debate. Yes $10 seems a little steep
(me being over in Australia, don't really have a terrible lot of
knowledge of your prices over in the US, but everything is a hell of
a lot cheaper over there).
In OZ, I get CDR media for about $3.50 each, in cases. Yes I could
get the cheaper no name brands for about 80c less, but I don't think
it would be worth it. $3.50 times two is, low and behold $7, adding
$4 postage to it (which is about all it would cost to post-probable
less), you have
$11 dollars - hence in Australia, *I* could almost do it for $10!.
Now, in my calculations, US$10 is approx $16-$17 Australian dollars
(rough, in my head calculations mind you, based on an estimated
exchange rate as well) giving him $5-$6 profit. That *does* seem
rather excessive, giving him the benefit of the doubt, lets say it
costs $1 to cover printing costs (that might seem a lot, but colour
printing is BLOODY EXPENSIVE!) and even more if he uses the special
high res paper (in the league of $2+).
So he is making a small profit, and like whoever it was that did say
it, after he makes 5 or so, he is making a nice little profit from
it.
Having said that, it must be remembered that CD burners have a bad
habit of having premature life spans, and it is fair to say that they
can probable only do about 400-500 cds before they do, essentially,
die. CD Burners are bloody expensive (over here at least, $500 for
crap, and in excess of $1000 for a Yamaha or Plextor one...)
Now, with that in mind, the profit he is making, could cover
equipment ware - though it still seems a damn lot!!! I dunno, maybe I
am just to kind, and do all my coping for free (hell, I even send CDR
over to the US for free...)
Now, here is my proposal to any OZ bootleg traders. I have *NO*
bootlegs (well, none of even remotely OK quality). If anyone in OZ
wants (hey, even if you don't) a copy of a, or many, bootleg(s) on
CD, and providing it is good quality, I am willing to put it onto CD
for you FOR FREE (see, that way I get a copy, which I sure as hell
think is worth doing it for free...). email me if you are interested.
- - Daniel
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail: dhirning@iname.com
ICQ UIN: 293082
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
If at first you don't succeed, forget skydiving.
_____________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:12:51 PST
From: "Valerie /" <charzi@hotmail.com>
Subject: I'll tell ya somethin' about junk, son...
Hi, Fivers.
For a while there, all the Fear of Pop banter was getting sludgy, but
now we've had all this bootleg talk, perhaps now a lil' FOP would be
kinda refreshing. Well, that's how I'm justifying it.
And there's also the fact I FINALLY got the dang CD after
not-happening-to-get-it like I usually do with even stuff I want. I've
listened on my big radio 'phones a few times now, and I must say it's a
happy little thing. I'm glad Ben made it, not just because it's pretty
interesting musically, but because (as I'd hoped) it lets Ben
efficiently use some different muscles than the ones he's been using. I
mean, the guy's got the next-neo-classical-pop-songwriter,
they-don't-write-'em-like-that-anymore mantel hovering over him - thank
God he was able to just not have to worry about all those strong
melodies going through at once and saying so much with all those lyrics.
He could just break it down to a couple melodies at a time at most,
talking with a ton of different sounds and pumping the beat up. I
would've been relieved he'd done these things even if I'd thought (like
some do) that it's an incomprehensible mess of self-indulgent crap.
It's a wonderful bonus I don't think that. Of course, that causes me to
ratchet up my expectations even higher for the album BFF's making
now....oh, dear. Well, I'll try to be supportive. Btw, the Conan thing
was indeed fabulous, and after you deal with Bill Shatner doing the
talking, "In Love" is a damn incisive track.
I'm not sure if that ask-the-boys-online thing is improving, but I'm
hoping someone has submitted a question that cuts to the heart of this
bootleg bickering: do they just want as many people as possible to hear
the music regardless of the money, and since this is not a cut-and-dried
charity-or-mercenary question, how important is actual sales in this
equation of priorities, i.e. having the funds to live and the juice to
continue with some progress? I don't happen to be a very active boot
person, but to be honest I'd just be concerned with what the artist(s)
would want, especially ones I give half a shit about like these boys.
Oh, and if no one's asked that question yet, you can copy mine and use
it yourself. No inellectual property problems with me in *this* case.
Peace,
Valerie
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:51:41 EST
From: James R Klinkert <klinkertj@juno.com>
Subject: nonbentent
gee think of that...
anyway this is a search, nate bachuber if you are on this list email me!!
this is brenda from school! yay!
i have a friend named kate.....boy does she like that song! ah ah
ahhh....
klinkertj@juno.com
all sorts of love
brenda rae
sorry for the low interest factor...
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:26:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Hayes Permar <hpermar@yahoo.com>
Subject: bootlegs
If Jessica's only point is that people are spending money they needn't
buying certain collections, I have no gripes with that. I agree that
there are other means of getting the same music. However, I first
started posting on the subject when whoever it was said that it was
wrong and people shouldn't be doing it. Reasons why people say it's
wrong:
1)It's illegal-In the sense that it is against the law, yes. But for
me that is not the end-all in decision making. Underage drinking,
speeding, and the occasional homocide are all considered illegal, but
I have continued to practice them.
2)It rips-off the band-Maybe, but as others have pointed out, the band
is not suffering financially due to an explosion in the bootleg
business.
3)You can trade for the same music-No denying this, but that is a
decision left up to the person trying to obtain the music. If they
feel like buying it fo convenience, so be it.
For the record I don't know this Hauer guy, nor do I own the
Beginnings CD. But if he's taken the initiative to put this music
together and market it, I think he deserves a few bucks, no matter how
easy, cheap or non-time consuming it may have been.
As for Doron, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your quote, but I only
took it as what I read. The fact that there was room for
misinterpretation suggests that you weren't clear enough to begin
with. Other than that, you're right, your argument is completely
flawless and I have no business arguing with a perfect quarreler like
you. I'm sure all your future arguments will be flawless, too and I
will never again waste my time reading your posts for hours upon end
just searching for that one flaw that I can attempt to exploit because
I now know that it won't be there.
Hayes
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:31:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Hayes Permar <hpermar@yahoo.com>
Subject: bootlegs
If Jessica's only point is that people are spending money they needn't
buying certain collections, I have no gripes with that. I agree that
there are other means of getting the same music. However, I first
started posting on the subject when whoever it was said that it was
wrong and people shouldn't be doing it. Reasons why people say it's
wrong:
1)It's illegal-In the sense that it is against the law, yes. But for
me that is not the end-all in decision making. Under age drinking,
speeding, and the occasional homicide are all considered illegal, but
I have continued to practice them.
2)It rips-off the band-Maybe, but as others have pointed out, the band
is not suffering financially due to an explosion in the bootleg
business.
3)You can trade for the same music-No denying this, but that is a
decision left up to the person trying to obtain the music. If they
feel like buying it for convenience, so be it.
For the record I don't know this Hauer guy, nor do I own the
Beginnings CD. But if he's taken the initiative to put this music
together and market it, I think he deserves a few bucks, no matter how
easy, cheap or non-time consuming it may have been.
As for Doron, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your quote, but I only
took it as what I read. The fact that there was room for
misinterpretation suggests that you weren't clear enough to begin
with. Other than that, you're right, your argument is completely
flawless and I have no business arguing with a perfect quarreler like
you. I'm sure all your future arguments will be flawless, too and I
will never again waste my time reading your posts for hours upon end
just searching for that one flaw that I can attempt to exploit because
I now know that it won't be there.
Hayes
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:31:50 -0600
From: "Will Flores" <willly@wt.net>
Subject: Re: Magical Armchair Digest V1 #1392
<<And even if it has a "passenger" logo on it, it's still a fake. Fake
record
label, even if they have other records out (ie other bootlegs). Amazing
what they're doing with computers these days, huh?>>
That was actually a joke, referring to how the s/t was actually a co-release
with Passenger. But if the self-titled is really a bootleg, then its the
biggest scam of all time :). Sort of sarcasm, I guess...
<<Mr. Willy, it's seems that you know that you're out of line, so you resort
to making assumptions regarding how educated and experienced I am with
respect to this topic. This is a mistake, because I've done my homework. I
did in fact visit his web page (before my initial post), I did know that it
was not an official release, and I also knew that it wasn't a concert when
it was actually demos (it helps that I have my own copy of the demos). So,
I guess I'll make an assumption of my own...you probably don't own a cd
burner, therefore you don't actually know how much money or time is
required to utilize one of these technological wonders. It's little to
nothing to buy the cds (which as I said before, include the jewel case,
this is why I believe that you don't have a cd burner), and it's even less
time to actually burn the cd if you've already got a cd copy. This is why,
my friend, you have no argument against why this is unjust. Ten dollars may
seem minimal to many of you, but when 20 people have purchased the cd set
from Mr. John Hauer, he's made at least $90 off of Ben Folds' music. Just
to clarify, I'm not bothered by the fact that John is selling the cd, but
by the fact that he's making a profit off of Mr. Folds. I'll say this
again, it does not cost $10 to burn, print inlays, and send two cds. I
don't care what you believe, if you (Willy) actually have a cd burner and
have traded CD-Rs with people, then I'd like to hear your logic. If not,
then don't try to justify something you know nothing about.>>
The fact that I do not own a cd burner does not mean that my arguments are
not valid. I'm not homeless either, but I know that homeless people exist.
I've never met Washington, but I know a lot about him. I don't own a
mercedes, but I know they're nice cars. (I'm kind of struggling for a good
analogy here..:) Your above argument is extremely flawed. And once again,
any 'profit' that he does make is small and negligible, and it sure is a
hell of a lot less then the $50 that bootlegs sell for at eBay.
<<If you think about why he put the statement, "I'm always open to trades"
on
his page, it makes complete sense. It's a loophole, so people like yourself
will believe that his motives are pure. He probably knows that the only
people who would most likely be interested in it would be people with
little or no trading experience, thus only being able to pay for it. If
they weren't interested in buying it, he'd probably only trade for CD-Rs
(but I'm not certain), which makes the likelihood even slimmer that he
would actually have to trade it seeing as how not many have cd burners. >>
Jesus dude, the guy isn't Satan. It's amazing that you could make such a
huge statement such as this and have (gasp!) no proof to back it up. How
many people have you talked to that have offered him trades that have been
rejected? Heck, in the last armchair alone there was a post by a guy that
said he ACCEPTED a trade from him. If you cannot find a single shred of
evidence of the contrary, your argument is not valid. And once again, this
fact speaks volumes. He cannot be 'exploiting' the band, as you so
emphatically point out, if he offers trades. And as evidence suggests, this
is not just a loophole. Nice try though.
Will
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 02:07:57 PST
From: "Courtney Knopf" <vegasbaby@hotmail.com>
Subject: copyright laws
>PLUS I swear they were exploiting "Rhapsody in Blue" at the end of
>Philosophy, I mean isn't that a classical music song?
No it's not. It was written by George Gershwin in the early 1900's. if
it was written post-1909 (which I believe it was), the publishing rights
belonged to Gershwin for a term of 28 years, plus a renewal term of
another 28 years and then anotehr 19 year term which totals 75 years in
which the author owns the copyright to the work.
This entitles the author to a statutory rate (that's currently at ¢7.1
per unit) on every performance/recording of his work. If the Gershwin
estate still holds the copyright, they are paid for every unit of WAEA
manufactured regardless of how many are actually sold. If the copyright
has expired, then Rhapsody in Blue is public domain and no money
exchanges hands.
and just for your further edification, any work made after 1978 holds an
automatic copyright of the life of the author + 70 years.
gosh... looks like i actually learned something in college. never
imagined that it would be copyright law that would move me to post on
the MA again.
as long as i'm responding to sarcasm...
~Courtney
The Sultraness of Swing
"You either kick your habit or the habit kicks you."
Read the Shrubbery http://www.theshrubbery.prohosting.com
Listen to my radio show Tues. 12-4am PST at http://kscr.usc.edu
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:44:19 EST
From: Cleonsdwn@aol.com
Subject: bootlegs
Bootlegs are a bad, bad thing. You are taking a licensed product, which Ben
Folds Five or any other band spent a lot of time working on, writing, and then
the recording process, which is god awful in itself. I only have a small
problem with people who TRADE though. I can see the point in "I just want to
pass it around," but its not your right to pass it around. People who sell
other peoples music for their own profit without getting peoples permission
are the scum of the earth...
As far as the Rhapsody in Blue thing, yeah, the end part of underground is
Rhapsody in Blue... There is another song, I don't remember which one, where
they do a classical thing in the middle.
nate
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 07:10:39 PST
From: "Natalie Graham" <ncgraham@hotmail.com>
Subject: BF5 videos on TV
Hey to all,
I heard on Triple J today that the 1998 hot 100 songs will be shown on
Rage on March 12th (100-51) and 13th (50-1). So, for any Aussie who
hasn't seen the video for SFTD or Brick, tune in on the 13th of March!
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------------------------------
End of Magical Armchair Digest V1 #1393
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